Fyrewurks

May 09 2008

Royal Blood?

20 responses so far

20 Responses to “Royal Blood?”

1. # Fyrewurks » Blog Archive » Herman Op Den Graeffon 12 May 2008 at 8:13 pm

   [...] with my Royal Blood post, I’ve been investigating Herman Op Den Graeff and who his parents are and came across a [...]

2. 
   # Doug Hockeron 24 Jan 2009 at 2:29 pm

   I too am related to the Op-den-Graeff family. What I am having trouble understanding is how they are related to the Cleves? Any suggestions?

3. 
   # Morganon 09 Jul 2010 at 6:21 am

   Hi I am part of the Graef/graeff family. I cpuld possibly be part of the op de graeff blood line

4. 
   # Michaelon 23 Sep 2010 at 8:27 pm

   My wife is also a descendant of the Op Den Graeff line and it appears that there is no definite proof that they descend from De La marck/Cleves line other than Herman claiming to be the Morgantic son of Wilhelm De La Marck. There is also a stained glass window that was in the Op Den Graeff home which is still in existance in Germany in a museum which shows various possible meanings to royal ties. I’ve done a lot of research on this and the argument continues between doubters and believers. I personally think it comes down to a choice of personal believe since we’ll never really know. Who is there to ask? My wife and I choose to believe that there is a direct tie and do not discount this idea. I hope this helps some.

5. 
   # V.E.G.on 03 Oct 2010 at 10:25 pm

   By the way, Herman Op Den Graeff is a direct descendant of Virginia Tech student Matthew Gregory Gwaltney and the attorney and hero Charles Hatfield Schulze.

6. 
   # V.E.G.on 15 Oct 2010 at 12:53 am

   Here is the descendant of Charles Hatfield Schulze through Herman Op Den Graeff:
   Herman Op Den Graeff
   Agnes Op Den Graeff (his daughter)
   Elizabeth DOORS (his granddaughter)
   Martha KEURLISS (his great-granddaughter)
   Mary POTTS (his 2nd generation great-granddaughter)
   Martha CLEAVER (his 3rd generation great-granddaughter)
   Nathan HATFIELD (his 4th generation great-grandson)
   William S. HATFIELD (his 5th generation great-grandson)
   John S. HATFIELD (his 6th generation great-grandson)
   Nathan S. HATFIELD (his 7th generation great-grandson)
   Charles Sherrod HATFIELD (his 8th generation great-grandson)
   Margaret HATFIELD (his 9th generation great-granddaughter)
   Charles Hatfield SCHULZE (his 10th generation great-grandson)

   Always remember Charles Hatfield Schulze, a man who gave his life saving two young boys and he was a gentleman and a hero to the very end!

7. 
   # Jenniferon 15 Oct 2010 at 1:14 am

   Thank you very much for the information!!

8. 
   # V.E.G.on 15 Oct 2010 at 1:15 am

   Matthew Gregory Gwaltney’s ancestry through Herman Op Den Graeff:
   Herman OP DEN GRAEFF
   Agnes Nessgen Op DEN GRAEFF (his daughter)
   Gertrude Doors (his granddaughter)
   Margaret Kuster (his great-granddaughter)
   Garrett DeWees (his 2nd generation great-grandson)
   Henry DeWees (3rd generation great-grandson)
   Garrett H. DeWees (his 4th generation great-grandson)
   Henry DeWeese (his 5th generation great-grandson)
   Martha DEWEESE (his 6th generation great-granddaughter)
   John R. POINDEXTER (his 7th generation great-grandson)
   John Lee POINDEXTER (his 8th generation great-grandson)
   Lee Poindexter (his 9th generation great-grandson)
   Karen Poindexter (his 10th generation great-granddaughter)
   Matthew Gregory Gwaltney (his 11th generation great-grandson)

   Always remember Matthew Gregory Gwaltney, the Virginia Tech Student, a hero and a angel!

9. 
   # V.E.G.on 15 Oct 2010 at 1:23 am

   Also for the very famous General, General George Armstrong Custer’s ancestry through Herman Op Den Graeff:
   Herman Op Den Graeff
   Agnes Neessgen Op Graeff (his daughter)
   Gertrude Doors (his granddaughter)
   Arnold Kuster (his great-grandson)
   Nicholas Kuster (his 2nd generation great-grandson)
   Emanuel Kuster (his 3rd generation great-grandson)
   John Custer (his 4th generation great-grandson)
   Emanuel Henry Custer (his 5th generation great-grandson)
   Gen. George Armstrong Custer (his 6th generation great-grandson)

   Oral tradition has it that George Armstrong Custer has a daughter Yellow Bird Custer.

   Yellow Bird Custer (his 7th generation great-granddaughter)

   Jennifer, you’re very welcome! Thank you! That is a very crazy world!

10. 
    # Michaelon 21 Oct 2010 at 2:08 pm

    FYI. It is important to know too that the Op Den Graeffs were one of the 13 founding families of the original Germantown settlers who were very well tied to William Penn. There are a few Doors headstones still located in Germantown that have not been destroyed and a statue with the heads of the 13 families.

11. 
    # Paula Halvorsonon 11 Nov 2010 at 8:36 pm

    I also am a descendant of the Op den Graeffs and have not been able to find any definitive information prior to Herman. I am very interested if anyone has any information. Thank you!

12. 
    # Ken Boultinghouseon 21 Nov 2010 at 12:08 am

    I am also a decendent of Herman Op den Graeff.

13. 
    # Pieter Cramwinckelon 10 Dec 2010 at 3:30 pm

    I found mentionned in the town protocols of Antwerp a Moyses Op den Grave, who paid a tax of L gulden in 1574 (contribution to by off roving Spanish soldiers). He must have been born before 1550. He could well be the grandfather of mennonite minister Herman Op Den Grave, and a son of Abraham op de Grave
    Since the name Op Den Grave (Op Den Graeff) is thus occuring well before the mennonite minister Herman op den Graeff birth, it is unlikely that a link to the ducal house of Cleve (then still counts) exist.-

14. 
    # Thomas R. Kelloggon 27 Dec 2010 at 1:50 am

    I am descended from Herman Op den Graeff. An intermediate ancestor is Herman UpdeGraff, Judge of the Court of Common Pleas of York County, PA in the Colonial Era. He had a son, Herman, from whom I’m also descended. I think the younger Herman “daughtered out.” I have reviewed the material, both pro and con, about Herman Op den Graeff’s distinguished ancestry. I haven’t made up my mind yet which side is right.

15. 
    # crisson 27 Dec 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Hello,

    There is a book titled William Penn and the Dutch Quaker Migration and it talks about Herman Op Den Graeff
    although he never came to Germantown, Pa. his son Herman did.

    From what i have found out Hermans mother Anne Van De Aldekerk was the 2nd cousin of John William
    of Cleves (1562-1609) and it mentioned when she died it was in the home of her nonhereditary son, Herman Op Den
    Graeff…Apparently if one of royalty was married to a cousin then the children of that marriage did not inherit any thrones, etc…or titles for that matter..Herman was the Mennonite Lord Bishop of Krefeld.
    William his father had two other wives but no children with those unions.

    I think it is safe to say that he was of royalty but never inherited from it being his parents were cousins.

    Hope this helps.

16. 
    # Jenniferon 28 Dec 2010 at 3:48 pm

    This is very helpful, criss, thank you very much for the information!!

17. 
    # Confusedon 04 Jan 2011 at 5:38 am

    Doesn’t anyone here use Google?

    The whole “De la Marcke” myth is over 40 years old – and there are pages upon pages of information available with a couple of mouseclicks, both debunking this myth as well as supplying much more credible information.

    Btw., you have already correctly established that the family has resided in Aldekerk/Altenkirchen a couple of generations prior. Duesseldorf in Germany, Antwerp in (now) Belgium and a few more cities are also in the mix. Important names are Abraham (who converted away from Catholicism), Leonardus etc.

    Happy Googling!

18. 
    # Jenniferon 05 Jan 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Yes, thanks I provided some of those links in this post, however it still remains a mystery so if we can gather resources in one place, and have some discussion on it, it may be beneficial!

    If you have found some more helpful links – please feel free to post them!

19. 
    # Michaelon 13 Jan 2011 at 3:09 pm

    In response to “Confused”. Of course Google was used for research on this topic. That is how many of us found this post. The subject is just not that simple and there is no written proof of lineage. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it comes down to a individual opinion. I agree with Criss’ blog as my research has allowed me to come to this same conclusion as I’ve been studying this topic for over two years due to my wife’s direct descendency to the Op Den Graeff
    line.

20. 
    # Jimon 02 Mar 2011 at 9:36 pm

    I’m also a descendant of Herman op den Graeff. Whether he is actually the son of de la Marck, that is the name in the records I have. I tried to work backwards through your pedigree and see how I’m related to William the Conqueror, but my pedigree lists a different mother for Johann Wilhelm de la Marck. You listed Maria von Hapsburg (1531-1581), but my records show Jeanne (Joan) “Queen Navarre” D’Albret (1528-1572), and her lineage goes in a completely different direction. This is right about the time you asked if we were following you. What am I missing? Can anyone point me to good information here?

21. 
    # Michaelon 07 Mar 2011 at 2:40 pm

    According to these links, the marriage to Jeanne (Joan) “Queen Navarre” D’Albret was annulled after four years with no children born. It is from her second marriage to Antoine de Bourbon she had children.

    These links should help clear up any confusion:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Albret

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William,_Duke_of_J%C3%BClich-Cleves-Berg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduchess_Maria_of_Austria_(1531%E2%80%931581)

22. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Then i believe that you are my dstant cousin ..My name is Jennifer Deann Ritchey I am 18 years old and live in gainesville, Texas..I am a Platagenet on Both sides of my family on both my mother’s and father’s , I am the last Platagenet i just recently found out and would like for you to help me as well understanding my hereitage please add me on fb at ritcheyjennifer@ymail.com id love to have more info please

23. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 4:10 pm

    this is my bloodline :William I, the Conqueror (1066-87)
    William II, Rufus (1087-1100)
    Henry I, Beauclerc (1100-35)
    Stephen (1135-54, deposed and restored 1141,Matilda, Empress of Germany (1141, uncrowned),
    Henry II, Curtmantle/Fitempress (1154-89)
    Richard I, Lionheart (1189-99)
    John, Lackland (1199-1216)
    Louis (1216-1217)
    Henry III (1216-72)
    Edward I, Longshanks (1272-1307)
    Edward II (1307-27, abdicated)
    Edward III (1327-77)
    Richard II (1377-99, abdicated),Henry IV, Bolingbroke (1399-1413)
    Henry V (1413-22)
    Henry VI (1422-61, desposed, 1470-1, deposed),Edward IV (1461-70, deposed, 1471-83)
    Edward V (1483, deposed, uncrowned)
    Richard III, Crookback (1483-5),Henry VII Tudor (1485-1509)
    Henry VIII (1509-47)
    Edward VI (1547-53)
    Lady Jane Grey (1553, deposed after 9 days)
    Mary I, Bloody Mary (1553-58)
    Elizabeth I (1558-1603),James I (1603-25)
    Charles I (1625-49, executed by Parliament),Oliver Cromwell (1649-58, Lord Protector)
    Richard Cromwell (1658-59, Lord Protector),Charles II (1660-85)
    James II (1685-88, deposed),William III (1689-1702) and Mary II (1689-1694)

    Thats the Ritchey blood line from my father

    ,

24. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Shelton Family:Sir john shelton-Son of Sir Ralph Shelton by his second wife, Margaret Clere. In 1492 with his father and siblings, John was mentioned in the will of his maternal grandmother Elizabeth Uvedale (Blomefield v11). As eldest son and heir, he figured prominently in Sir Ralph’s will dated 21 Mar 1497 and in it, his father exhorted John to not interfere with any settlement in Shelton or Hardwick made on his mother. The bulk of the estates and manors passed to him on his father’s death in 1498.

    He was High Sheriff of Norfolk in 1504; and the same yaer he presented Sir Robert Bunnynge as rector to the church in Hardwick. 28 Nov 1505 with his brother Richard and several hundred others in Norfolk, he received a pardon from the King for any offenses in regulating trade. Around this time, he married Anne, daughter of Sir William Boleyn of Blicking co Norfolk by his wife Margaret, daughter of Thomas Butler, Earl of Ormond; and sister of Thomas Boleyn.

    He was knighted in 1509, and was present as Knight of the Bath at the Coronation of Henry VIII. This is confirmed by the Book of Dignities (p259) At that time he had as his arms (azure, a plain cross , or) and for his crest a tawny Saracen’s head proper. The NRS says he was High Sheriff of Norfolk in 1505 and 1523. NRS Muster Roll of 1523 shows that John held lands in Thirsford and Barney and was lord of Great Snoryng – John Clifton was his Steward at Great Snoryng. In 1518 he presented to the church at Thirsford as its patron. In 1523 he presented to the church at Shelton as its patron. In 1538 Sir John was granted the 800 year old Carrow Abbey in Norwich (Blomefield v4 p 513). He fitted the windows of the abbey with the arms of the Shelton family and their alliances. (Blomefield V4 p 259).

    He was listed as being with Catalina of Aragon, Queen of England at the Field of the Cloth of Gold in France (Cambden Society ser 1 vol 21 p 36). In 1530 he presented Sir John Blomefield as rector to Moring-Thorp (Blomefield v 5 p 286). In 1536 to the same church he presented James Bothe as rector to the church in Hardwick (Blomefield v5 p222)

    In Apr 1533, Anne Boleyn, daughter of Sir John Shelton’s brother-in-law, was crowned as Queen of England, and it is certain that her Shelton relations would have attended, and Margaret (called “Madge”) Shelton, daughter of Sir John Shelton and Anne Boleyn, personally attended the Queen. Sir John Shelton and his wife were appointed governors of the household of Princess Elizabeth. Anne Shelton became the governess of Princess Mary, the daughter of Henry VIII first wife, Catalina of Aragon. While many “romantic” works have characterized the Shelton’s treatment of Mary as quite brutal, and while part of their mandate was to make it clear to Mary that she was no longer the King’s legitimate daughter and heir, their treatment could not have been as harsh as sometimes suggested. Mary in her Privy Purse expenditures gave small gifts to the Shelton daughters, settled an annuity on Lady Anne Shelton in her widowed hood and seems to have kept some good will with that family, which would have been unlikely if their treatment had been so harsh. Mary and Elizabeth remained in the Sheltons’ care until at least fall of 1536.

25. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 4:15 pm

    In Apr 1533, Anne Boleyn, daughter of Sir John Shelton’s brother-in-law, was crowned as Queen of England, and it is certain that her Shelton relations would have attended, and Margaret (called “Madge”) Shelton, daughter of Sir John Shelton and Anne Boleyn, personally attended the Queen. Sir John Shelton and his wife were appointed governors of the household of Princess Elizabeth. Anne Shelton became the governess of Princess Mary, the daughter of Henry VIII first wife, Catalina of Aragon. While many “romantic” works have characterized the Shelton’s treatment of Mary as quite brutal, and while part of their mandate was to make it clear to Mary that she was no longer the King’s legitimate daughter and heir, their treatment could not have been as harsh as sometimes suggested. Mary in her Privy Purse expenditures gave small gifts to the Shelton daughters, settled an annuity on Lady Anne Shelton in her widowed hood and seems to have kept some good will with that family, which would have been unlikely if their treatment had been so harsh. Mary and Elizabeth remained in the Sheltons’ care until at least fall of 1536.

    In a letter written by Queen Anne to Lady Anne Shelton late 1535, early 1536, the Queen discusses Mary Tudor’s obstinance in refusing to deny the legality of her marriage to her mother, and directed Anne Shelton to not try to turn “her from any willful courses, because she could not do me any good or evil and do your duty about her, according to the King’s commands, as I am assured you do”.

    Anne Boleyn’s fall from her high station culminated in her trial for adultery, treason and incest and her execution 19 May 1536 at the Tower of London. Her Shelton relations must have regarded Anne’s disgrace as a catastrophe, though in reality, the Sheltons did not suffer much from this setback. Princess Elizabeth, now illegitimate, was left for a time in the care of the Sheltons, though funds for her upkeep had dried up so considerably that Sir John Shelton wrote to Thomas Cromwell, 16 Aug 1536 complaining about the situation.

    When Anne was executed, there was no one to give the necessary orders about the child´s clothing. To make matters worse, John Shelton, was disrupting the daily routine by imprudently insisting that Elizabeth should take her meals with everyone else in the hall instead of eating in her own nursery quarters. Much upset by this interference, Lady Bryan wrote to protest to the King, and at the end of Jun Henry gave orders for Elizabeth´s household to be reorganized, allowing her thirty-two servants. Elizabeth appears to have spent time through out her childhood in Shelton where there was a pew named Lady Elizabeth’s pew after her.

    In 1538, Sir John Shelton was granted ownership of the 800 year old Carrow Abbey in Norwich where he fitted the windows with the arms of the Shelton family and their alliances. In 1539, he settled his manor of Sayer’s in Stratton on his wife Anne for her life.

    He died 21 Dec 1539 aged 62 and is buried in Shelton Cancel with a brass monument over his head. The circumscription about the tomb in brass is,

    Johannes Shelton, Miles quondam istius pagi Dominus,

    Si Fortunam, si Vitam, is Felicitatem, scice cupis,

    Hec Carmina tibi dicent

    Lege, Vive, et Vale

    Morboram vicia, et Vite Mala marima fugit,

    Nunc careo pacis, pace fruor placida.

    Virit Annos 62 Ao 1539.

    Bene merenti Ucot posuit.

26. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 4:15 pm

    The the south side of his tomb are the arms of Shelton, Illegh, Burgullion, Shelton quartered in the nombreil, Cockfield, Shelton and Boleyn impaled. On the north side are Shelton and Boleyn impaled, Boleyn and Butler Earl of Ormond quartered and Shelton and Boleyn impaled again. The east window of the chancel was glazed at his charge and in it is his own effigies in a praying posture with his arms on his surcoat and that of his wife with the Boleyn arms. Over his head the arms of Shelton and Boleyn are impaled and over her’s Shelton and Burgullion quarterly “or and gules”, and Cockfield impaled with Boleyn. Sir John Shelton the younger was his son and heir.

27. 
    # jenniferon 25 Apr 2011 at 4:16 pm

    please i need someone to help me contact me at 940 536 9476 or add my fb id love for anyone to give me more info on my family line

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